CUNY CLRN Testimonial

The City University of New York Project Member Feedback

When asked what is best about being a member of the network, members described the network as:

• providing "support in every way, shape, and form;" 
• providing a "sense of a community of equals with a shared commitment and vision regarding delivering quality legal services at affordable prices;" 
• a "tremendous tool for new attorneys who desire to help their communities;" and
• "an amazingly supportive and helpful program."

One member stated:

"What an awesome program! I am very pleased by what I have been able to get out of my General Practice Group II. It exceeded my expectations in many ways. My lawyer friends outside of CUNY are very jealous of me! However, I am not surprised by the caliber of the program. CUNY, by its very nature has always been conducive to collaboration as a way to learning and bringing about social change."

Participants spoke about being able to have access to the pooled expertise of all members - "pooled resources to help the underserved." Because of their membership in the network, participants are able to talk with other practitioners about cases, especially in areas that are new to them. Due to their collaboration with one another, they are able to take on cases in areas unfamiliar to them and, thereby, help people who are unable to afford a lawyer otherwise.

Participants described network membership as a "psychological safety net" and a "security blanket." They stated that, whatever the legal issue, they now have resources that provide them with the confidence to take on cases they might not otherwise take on - including pro bono work. Participants described membership as providing them with a "network of associates - people I can call on" for guidance and advice in handling different scenarios in day-to-day practice. Members need only make a phone call or send out an email question and they receive quick responses with answers or directions to obtain answers. 

This ability to easily obtain information and advice "aids in efficiency for solo practitioners." Participants are able to get an answer to a question in 5 minutes as opposed to spending hours conducting research. Network membership helps practitioners streamline their research, saving clients money, and thus enabling members to handle pro bono cases they might not otherwise be able to take on. The network enables members to meet with a group of people in their same specialty and be able to "act like a law firm" and not be "out there alone." It provides them with an avenue for exchanging ideas and approaches to cases. 

Members made the following statements:

• "[the network provides me with the luxury of a law firm. I now have a group of lawyers in my specialty area with whom I can discuss strategies, procedural issues, legal issues, etc. I am not alone out there;"
• "As a solo, I felt isolated and had no group or individual to turn to for help with procedural matters, legal issues, approaches to individual cases, research… - too costly to do through Lexis or Westlaw - etc. I am now part of a 'firm' with experienced 'partners' and 'associates'. I have access to research and people to go to for help on a myriad of issues. I have a much more positive feeling about my ability to 'lawyer' and a feeling of self worth. I am fortunate to get more referrals than I can take. I now have a list of attorneys to refer to. Many more clients are getting expert representation through the [network. The Project Director] is always there to answer a question, give suggestions, hold my hand and give that much needed pat on the back. I do not believe that I would still be in practice without the [network];"
• "[The network] gives me security as a solo practitioner to know that I am not out here alone and that I have a source to go to if I am uncertain about an issue so that my clients can and will receive quality legal representation. All I want to do as a solo practitioner is to provide quality legal services to clients in areas that impact their lives. It is not easy out here;"
• "I really hope that [the network] will continue because it has had a very positive impact on the persons in the community that I serve. I have been able to provide better service because of the information and support of [the network]. I am also able to manage better financially."

An additional member commented:

"Most of my clients earn just enough money to exclude them from receiving assigned counsel in the family court and [to have] no counsel in matrimonial issues in Supreme Court. It would be impossible for them to hire an attorney who charged customary rates. Most of my clients are also members of minority groups and all of them are battered women.

I charge my clients on a sliding scale fee according to their income. This would not be possible without the help of [the network]. I do not earn enough money to carry out a solo practice that represented such a large number of low-income clients without the resources that [the network] provides.

[In one of my cases involving a battered woman,] through research provided by [the network], I was able to get my client a larger sum of money than the law normally allows because there was precedent set in several previous cases that was on point with my client's case. She is now back on her feet and living 'free' for the first time in more than twenty years. The husband was ordered to pay my legal fees!

[In another of my cases involving] an abused client who wanted to relocate with her child to another state... I believed I had a winning case, but was not sure how to present it to the court. By speaking to several members of [the network] who had already done this type of action, I was able, not only to get advice on how to proceed but also case law and sample motions. My client is now living in Florida with her child. Had l had to do all of the research on my own, I would have to have charged for many more hours, which this client could not afford.

There have been many such cases. Through help with research and the ability to discuss cases at meetings, through e-mail, and directly with other members, I can do things more quickly and thoroughly, thereby saving my clients money and representing them more aggressively.

Saving time allows me to take on more clients for smaller fees. [The network] helps me save time with legal issues and also with practical issues. Running a business is time consuming. By providing me with software, a billing service, lectures on how to efficiently run an office, and contact with others who also provide practical advice, I can spend more time being an effective advocate and less on office details.

The large number of low income and minority battered women that I have represented, have all benefited from my membership in [the network]. I now have a list of other members to whom I can refer clients that I do not have the time to represent or who have legal issues that I do not deal with, allowing more women access to legal representation. Without [the network], I could not continue my dream of representing low income battered women and also taking pro bono cases from agencies who represent indigent battered women."

In addition to the support they receive from each other, participants spoke about the assistance they receive from project staff. One participant described the project office as a "communication pivotal point" that provides essential information. When he does not know where to turn to get something or find someone, he said he is able to call the office and get ideas as well as names of other people to call. Network membership enables members to provide higher quality services because they are able to access rules, regulations, statutes, and case law - they have access to a comprehensive knowledge base. 

The support they receive from project staff enables them to provide better service while charging below average fees or doing pro bono work. The capacity to have research conducted by project staff better enables members to engage in higher quality legal work. 

Members commented that:

• "the [network's] research capacity [has] allowed me to achieve a level of advocacy far higher than I would have otherwise attained due to time constraints;"
• participation in the network has resulted in this firm receiving referrals as well as hardware and software "that have now become indispensable to our day-to-day operations;"
• the project's "top notch faculty and staff have given me invaluable help including morale boosting;"
• project staff provided "an intellectual framework and practical tools to deepen my commitment toward socially-conscious legal practice." 

Participants also spoke about how network membership has increased their technological capacity. A number of participants pointed out that were it not for network membership, they would not currently be using email. It was a combination of being urged (or, given a "kick in the pants") to use email and being provided with hands-on assistance to learn to use it that enabled them to start to take advantage of this useful tool. The technology assistance the network provides was described as a "safety net for technology." One participant pointed out that her practice has directly benefited from her new use of technology. She created her own website and was able to pay for it from a case that came to her from the web site. Another participant stated that she has not only learned to use email but has learned to use her computer in ways she had not before, enabling her to become more efficient, thereby saving time and enabling her to charge less.

One member stated:

"I think this is a wonderful and valuable program. It is especially central for practitioners starting out in their own practice because it provides a great foundation of how to start your practice. The information available through the Internet and the new technological advances (i.e., computer software programs) that are available are a true asset to solo practitioners. The commitment of the folks at CUNY's program in training the practice group members in the technological realm has been a great value to my practice."

Trust was an important theme among participants. One participant described the project office as a "comfortable source" of information because he knows the names and information he receives will be trustworthy. Participants also spoke of the importance of being able to refer cases to people they trust. Because their reputation depends on it, they need to be able to refer clients to practitioners who are competent in their field and the network enables them to do that. They are able to refer their clients to someone they know can and will do a good job. And, trust was important in terms of what makes the network different from bar associations and other professional organizations. Participants stressed how comfortable they feel asking one another (and the guest speakers) questions. This is in direct contrast to the hesitation they expressed they would feel contacting a bar association mentor whose time they feel they are imposing on or a fellow bar association member who might be too busy to care about giving information.

Participants also spoke of the benefit they receive from learning about law office management and practice issues. One member stated:

"as a solo practitioner, pressured for time, the business component of my practice became neglected. I kept poor track of time, sent bills sporadically - based on time I thought I spent on each client - and did not always charge clients for expenditures such as copying, long distance calls, fed-exs, etc. I was losing money and not fully collecting what I did bill for. [The project] has provided its members with a billing service, the Harris Group, which, not only does my billing, but has also helped me learn how to manage my practice. I now keep much better track of my time, bill on a timely basis, and bill for all disbursements…I could not have sustained my practice without the help and encouragement I have received from [the project]."

Another member described the network as the "only entity out there that provides direction and moral support for solo practitioners." 

The meetings at which outside speakers make presentations enables network members to get introductions to new areas of law, have an opportunity to meet potential mentors and new people in the field. And, of course, CLE courses at no cost make it possible for these struggling practitioners to meet their mandatory CLE requirements. One participant noted that the student legal advice program at Baruch College not only provides students with legal advice, but provides practitioners with a good marketing and networking opportunity as well. 

When asked what they would like to be quoted as saying about the network, participants said:

• they are "part of a dedicated informed legal community;" 
• "when you hire one member, you get the power, support, and backing of other members;" 
• it "furthers my dream of being able to help the community;" 
• it is "being able to follow my passion and …provide quality legal services at low cost to folks who might not otherwise have easy access;" 
• the network "allows me to be part of a legal dream team while being a solo practitioner;" 
• "people join bar associations for their resume, they join [the network] for their clients;" 
• network membership gives me a "strong sense of pride in helping the immigrant population;" 
• the network "has given me support to fulfill my original mission for law school;" 
• the network has "revived my confidence in being a private practitioner;" 
• "you can do it better with [the network];" 
• the network provides "large law firm support for solo practitioners;" 
• the network is a "great transition into solo practice;" 
• it is "like a springboard from law school to practice;" 
• "many of us have exchanged motion papers and petitions…you do not need to reinvent the wheel;" 
• "it's priceless;" and 
• it "helps you create your future instead of stumbling through it."

When asked to distinguish the network from memberships in bar associations and other professional organizations, participants spoke about the fact that the network provides real, on-point, one-on-one help in doing cases (especially pro bono cases). The bar association, on the other hand, provides a class and a pro bono case but it is often difficult to reach anyone for help in handling that case. Within the network, there is free "day-to-day assistance" and "continuous help, not just one class." Also, "questions get answered more quickly" while there is often "no time for questions at bar association presentations." Network members receive prompt responses to questions - they obtain specific practical information in a timely fashion - practical information such as where to go to court and where to file something. Participants pointed out that network members will walk you through a case providing you with one-on-one guidance, not just the theory of the case. Bar association trainings, they say, give you the big picture but the network helps you with the realities and the pitfalls.

Participants also spoke to the uniqueness of sharing a commitment to providing low cost and free legal assistance - unlike discussions they overhear at bar associations in which lawyers discuss ways they can raise their fees and get rid of those clients who cannot pay. Participants emphasized that their aim is to figure out a way to help those who cannot pay - that, they said "is the CUNY way." Network members do not view money as the most important goal for their practice, they "figure pro bono work into the calculation." One participant described her practice as a "Robin Hood practice" - she is able to represent clients without money who are not able to pay fees (or only small fees) because she represents clients with money who are able to pay fees. She is able to make this work, she says, because of the time saving devices the network provides. 

One participant noted that she used to attend American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) meetings but found that most of the meeting topics were related to business immigration issues while she and others in the network concentrate on asylum and refugee cases. She finds more common ground with network members. Similarly, participants noted that many bar association members are from large law firms ("big money lawyers") and public service is not the focus of their meetings. One participant described the distinction as:

comparing "apples and oranges." You "can't even compare them…you are anonymous at bar associations while here it is so personalized…I would never send an email to a bar association member…bar associations are political networking organizations while the network is a practicing actual work group."

In the network, they said, there is a sense of closeness as opposed to dealing with a huge bar association. The network was described as a "big alumni association but the alumni are more actively involved." One participant noted that members have had input into the creation and design of the network whereas with bar associations, you have to "take what you get." As one participant put it:

"bar associations are ways to advocate for particular issues…[and are] also good for CLE - but it is not the kind of help and support I get here - I go there to network and advocate but that is different from what I get from [the network]. Bar associations are not for public interest people. [The network] is specialized and geared to us. Unlike bar associations that have huge memberships, the network environment is more personal."

Participants compared the peer mentoring in the network to the mentoring programs at bar associations. One participant pointed out that mentor relationships established through bar associations do not seem to build - you call someone with a question and get an answer and the relationship ends there. With certain bar association programs (like those offered by AILA), you can email questions and receive a "brief, cold, detached reply," while network members give you answers and follow up with a phone call to see how things went. Participants feel they get more special attention in the network than from bar association mentors. 

A participant in the New York State Bar Association mentor program said she feels like she is imposing when she contacts mentors and that they are "talking down to me." In the network, one participant said, it is "more like speaking to a friend." Participants said they would hesitate before picking up the phone to call a bar association mentor because it is intimidating but that is not the case with the network where members are more responsive to each other. A participant pointed out that as a member of AILA, she is hesitant to ask questions of senior practitioners because "you don't want to reveal what you don't know…you can't let down your hair because you are in a professional community. You can feel comfortable asking [network] members questions." 

Also, at specialized bar associations such as AILA, members only know one practice area. In the network, members can provide information and advice about a broader range of specialties. Members feel it is "safe to reveal your ignorance" because members are not competitive but are collaborative. One participant described the network as a "mini bar association with one-on-one help and a common purpose…it is more effective…you get to ask a lot of questions…it is the best darn bar association you can have - money can't buy it."

Members describe a special atmosphere in the network. Members are responsive to and feel comfortable with each other. They share the common bond of having attended the same law school. They noted that:

• the network provides a "non-adversarial environment" that provides a "home base for solo practitioners who are out there alone;"
• "I no longer feel alone and have a place to turn to…a 'center' if you will. To the extent that I utilize the resources of [the network] (and I do), my clients benefit;"
• "The [network] changed my legal existence. I felt incredibly isolated and without resources prior to becoming a member. I now feel very confident in my ability to represent clients in my area of law."